Episode 1: (In)Justice

The voices you will listen to share personal testimonies of what justice means to them within the context of education, and more broadly within society. You will be guided on a journey of understanding, accountability and the idea of dreaming of something more. We begin the discussion with Elder Shirley John, Anishinaabe wisdom keeper, who explains how the grandfather teachings correlate to understanding justice. To read more about each of the speakers, click here.

Transcript

Jessica Sass 00:00

This is Jessica Sass and you are listening to one of four parts of a series titled: Collective History: Reconciliation, Knowledge, & Justice. Over the course of several months, semi-structured interviews were conducted with employees and Indigenous educational partners of Facing History and Ourselves Canada, an international; education organization that creates supplemental materials for teachers that “stand up to bigotry and hate.”  Invested educators and Elders shared their vision of what educational partnership looks like and how it impacts not only their classroom but generations of students who will uplift and uphold true narratives of history. The educational partners’ insights enable non-Indigenous educators in Canada to work in a respectful manner, apart from colonial influence. In this conversation, we focus on thoughts about justice and injustice in the space of curriculum development and within the broader contexts of history. The voices you will listen to share personal testimonies of what justice means to them within the context of education, and more broadly within society. We begin the discussion with Elder Shirley John, Anishinaabe wisdom keeper, who explains how the grandfather teachings correlate to understanding justice. 

Elder Shirley  John 01:28

This is one of our seven grandfather teachings, we have to have respect for ourselves first  so that we can spread respect to other people in all the work that we do. If you don't know what love is, you better learn what love is, because love is unconditional in many ways. And to know that, so you can have a love for every man, woman, and child that you meet. You have to know what love is. So you can spread the love and watch it grow. At first, you got to love yourself.

Jessica Sass 02:04

The theme of self-love and self-reflection is carried by Jasmine Wong, senior programs associate with Facing History and Ourselves Canada which grounds us in the “here and now” while at the same time reflecting on the past. She prompts us to think about how educators situate themselves to teach about justice in a way that is comprehensive and ongoing. And she asks herself, and the listener in turn, what are the responsibilities we carry to bear witness to the histories we learn? 

Jasmine Wong  02:43

I think when we think about justice, we have to recognize histories of injustice, we have to know that it is not just how we approach a particular moment. And, here and now. I think in the context of justice and education, we're thinking about the debts that are owed from the past. We're thinking about injustices that were made in the past, not just directly to the individual sitting in front of you, but what are the injustices that sit at policy or at organizational or institutional levels. And so justice for me is about not just that person who's in front of the room, who absolutely matters. But, it's also about how we can address those longer institutional injustices. What has changed through the course of learning? 

Jasmine Wong 03:41

How do you hear the words of survivors and bear witness and continue to bear witness because this is now your responsibility to bear witness? And how do you impress on students to bear witness? What kinds of symbols, what kind of memorials, what kinds of monuments? What kinds of reminders? Do you set yourself so that this is something that you are aware of all the time?

Jessica Sass 04:16

Jasmine reflects on the types of questions we should be asking ourselves and our students in order to create a continuum of historical truths. Grandmother Kim Wheatley, an Anishinaabe cultural consultant, and wisdom keeper, shares how injustice in education directly affects her and future generations of her people. Educator Andrew McConnell, coordinator of First Nations, Métis, and Inuit education at the York Region District School Board, agrees with Grandmother Kim and speaks to the blind spots in our education systems.

Grandmother Kim Wheatley  04:54

So when I think about all the years that experienced injustice in education, and then I watched my children and my grandchildren experience the same thing like this is three living generations going through the same nonsense in a so-called education system. That has not been challenged until most recently but has not taken responsibility for, you know, for its very blatant absences and historic amnesia.

Andrew McConnell  05:18

You could see it with Black Lives Matter during all those protests, right? Like, people just couldn't understand. But all lives matter. Yeah, but only one set of lives right now is being impacted by policing. So yeah, we got to call it out and say this particular set of lives matter. I come from one of the most oppressed groups, right, like hell, we've been pushed off our own lands and shoved into small little containers. And every time we put our hand up and step out, people go, Wow, we forgot you were here. Right? Like, and yet, I think Black lives matter. And I don't need it to turn into Indigenous lives matter. I need people to see Black lives matter because they do. And that's the right cause for black folk. And then for me, as Indigenous people, we need something different. Right? In the end, social justice is about people. It's a sense of equity versus equality, right? Equality, everybody gets the same thing. Equity, everybody gets what they need. And I think that is really where we need to move our minds and remind us, and that's why it belongs in schools. 

Jessica Sass 06:21

Andrew continues to share his personal experiences within the education system as an Indigenous student.  He speaks to the doors open to him because of his appearance, and those opportunities denied him as an Ojibwe living on Ojibwe lands. 

Andrew McConnell 06:48

So justice in education is to allow all possibilities for all people. And, to really undo the stereotypes that exist. And that limits people's right. I'm an Indigenous person. And when people see me, they see a white guy, and therefore, they don't offer me limits in my economic success. But, they try to force me into limits based on my cultural availability. You know, they deny me access to things like my language, right? You couldn't take the Ojibwe language when I was a kid in school, otherwise I would have taken it. I am an Ojibwe person living in Ojibwe territories, I should be able to learn and use my own language here.  The school board didn't see it as important. That's a denial, that's unjust. 

Jessica Sass 07:11

Leora Schaefer, the executive director of Facing History and Ourselves Canada, discusses the limitations of education leadership that Grandmother Kim and Andrew have raised.  She says that in order for justice to flourish, it has to begin in the schools, which leads to the questions of what schools and schooling should look like and who should be leading the work to bring about change. 

Leora Schaefer  07:50

If we're really going to be thinking about what justice looks like, we really need to be sort of turning our thinking about what schools and schooling looks like on its head and taking the lead from lots of different people, including Indigenous people in this country who should be leading that work, so that we're not just replicating a system and just taking it for granted. Like, this is what defines a school. This is what schooling looks like. This is what education looks like. This is what success looks like. Right? These things have not really changed for generations. Ultimately, that's what justice will look like if we really start thinking about education in a completely different way.

Jessica Sass 08:21

Jasmine shares similar sentiments to Leora. She reminds us that Indigenous children’s education has always been at the hands of non-Indigenous educators, even though we know that is not what is needed. She thinks the moment is now to make substantive changes.

 Jasmine Wong  08:38

The education of Indigenous children was not led by Indigenous people. And yet, that has always been the call. We know that that is part of what is really good and necessary for young Indigenous kids. But we also know that it's also what's really good for non-Indigenous kids, a more just society when we hear each other's voices when we give power over to people to make choices over what and how young people are learning and what they're taught. You know, that question of justice is absolutely about here. And now. And it's absolutely about the future. And I think that there is a lot that can happen when we equip educators to see it's like we have to be able to understand. 

Jasmine Wong  09:04

I mean, teachers have a professional responsibility to teach students. And when we empower teachers to do the work that they do so beautifully. I think it's really rewarding, o so that students can grow fully to be themselves and to feel like they can be more empathetic and more compassionate, and more aware of the impact of their choices.

Jessica Sass 9:36

Jasmine and Grandmother Kim both believe in the future of our students and that it is our collective responsibility to be on this quest for justice and to ultimately maintain a strong sense of hope.

 Grandmother Kim Wheatley  9:47

I want to maintain hope. I believe in the humaneness of my fellow human beings, who live in a home that has always been ours, to stand up and not fight, but find beautiful loving ways to demand change. Youth are the reason why we do what we do. They're the ones who are going to learn from and then, you know, expand as a result of and, and if we limit their expansion by limiting their truth, true, justful education then we have not served well. They want more, they want different, and they understand justice from a completely different perspective than we old relics do. I try to stay as in the loop as possible, but I learn something from youth every time I engage with them. I get to see through a different lens that makes me richer for the experience and I feel like that's an under-tapped aspect of the educational environment as a whole.

Jessica Sass 10:59

To hear the full interviews, click on the  “people” tab and subsequently, click on each individual’s name. You will see their biographies, along with the full video and transcription. Thank you for listening.